1 reviews | Active since Aug 2023
Rain Mobile doing its clients in
Ken S’s reply 22 Apr 2026 at 08:34 Rain’s reply 06 Apr 2026 at 08:26 Hi Ken,
Thank you for your response.
Please note that the ZTE outdoor device is no longer available as part of our current product offering. The service has since been standardised to the updated 101 outdoor setup, which includes an outdoor unit paired with an indoor WiFi solution.
We apologise for any confusion caused by the previous information provided. To resolve this, we will proceed with arranging a swap to the current 101 outdoor device, ensuring your service is aligned with the latest available equipment.
Kindly note that the delivery and installation will not be handled by CCD, but by our in-house delivery team, who will contact you directly to arrange a suitable time.
you wrote this on the 6th april, an appointment was made for the 10th for deliver, i have it in my emails, no one pitched and since no one has called to arrange a new date, its now the 22nd. Rain has let me suffer with a broken modem for 22 days now.. you refuse to replace the broken modem you sent me on the 1st... your consultants confirmed on the 10th it was coming, 3 of them confirmed this yet no one pitched and since consultants are dismissive and are not helping with this.. why has rain done this? why did you not honour your word and appointment and then refuse to make another and send the modem? why have i not been contacted as yet about this 12 days later? where is the modem you said in that 6th april responce? why are you doing this to my service, why are you deliberately doing this? 24 days last month waited for a modem only to be given a broken one and now 22 days after this still no modem replace. why has rain allowed a client to use a defective modem like this for this long and yet said would be replaced? why am i paying money for a broken modem and service exactly? have you no integrity to you? are you happy to give clients broken modems and let them have bad service and charge them full fare for this? all deliberately? are you happy to do that to your clients? i am not the only one, tiktok is full of videos of people saying this very thing i am.. so when is rain going to fix this issue finally? does this really have to go on like this?
We sincerely apologize that your experience hasn’t been up to standard.Our team is addressing this urgently.
Kind regards,rain.
We sincerely apologize that your experience hasn’t been up to standard.Our team is addressing this urgently.
Kind regards,rain.
We sincerely apologize that your experience hasn’t been up to standard.Our team is addressing this urgently.
Kind regards,rain.
its an indoor 101 modem to replaced with an indoor 101 modem. not this outdoor one that was mentioned. the consultant did correct this and it was not delivered on the 10th at all... an outdoor modem can not be installed here. it was denied by the people i llive with to put a modem on their roof and thats not what i asked for either. only an indoor 101 modem like i have now is accepted and was agreed to via consultants.. so make sure you get this right. you can not install an outdoor one on the roof here. its not my house and i dont have a say in this... so make sure this is correct this time and make sure this is resolved asap! ohh and make sure that the box comes with all the parts inside this time... you left out many things the last time, not even a network cable or wall mounting was provided. make sure this is a brand new modem and not someone else's second hand one that had issues in it. to factory reset the modem twice on the 2nd April proved that it was a second hand one.. you only reset a modem if you are clearing someone else's details out of it to put new clients info into it. i am an IT guy so i know this to be true... i will not accept another faulty or broken modem or factory resetting it when it arrives... make sure this time all is the way its supposed to be. please end this 46 day nightmare of an experience already!!!
We sincerely apologize that your experience hasn’t been up to standard.Our team is addressing this urgently.
Kind regards,rain.
its an indoor 101 modem to replaced with an indoor 101 modem. not this outdoor one that was mentioned. the consultant did correct this and it was not delivered on the 10th at all... an outdoor modem can not be installed here. it was denied by the people i llive with to put a modem on their roof and thats not what i asked for either. only an indoor 101 modem like i have now is accepted and was agreed to via consultants.. so make sure you get this right. you can not install an outdoor one on the roof here. its not my house and i dont have a say in this... so make sure this is correct this time and make sure this is resolved asap! ohh and make sure that the box comes with all the parts inside this time... you left out many things the last time, not even a network cable or wall mounting was provided. make sure this is a brand new modem and not someone else's second hand one that had issues in it. to factory reset the modem twice on the 2nd April proved that it was a second hand one.. you only reset a modem if you are clearing someone else's details out of it to put new clients info into it. i am an IT guy so i know this to be true... i will not accept another faulty or broken modem or factory resetting it when it arrives... make sure this time all is the way its supposed to be. please end this 46 day nightmare of an experience already!!!
Kindly note that we tried calling you; however, we were not able to reach you.Please provide us with an alternative contact number or a convenient time for us to call.
the reason you cant get hold of me is due to my phone being on wifi on the 5G faulty defective modem you sent me so i dont get calls or can make them either. i didnt even get a notify or sms saying you tried to call. now you can see how serious this is. i cant even call out or get calls on this properly. it depends on if the G5 is working at the time or not.. not my fault, your fault for sending a broken modem to me. you have my number, continue to try. best i can say. its not my fault this is happening, i did tell many consultants this who also said they cant get hold of me. its due to your broken technology that you deliberately sent to me 22 days ago.. so keep trying, best you can do
Kindly note that we tried calling you; however, we were not able to reach you.Please provide us with an alternative contact number or a convenient time for us to call.
the reason you cant get hold of me is due to my phone being on wifi on the 5G faulty defective modem you sent me so i dont get calls or can make them either. i didnt even get a notify or sms saying you tried to call. now you can see how serious this is. i cant even call out or get calls on this properly. it depends on if the G5 is working at the time or not.. not my fault, your fault for sending a broken modem to me. you have my number, continue to try. best i can say. its not my fault this is happening, i did tell many consultants this who also said they cant get hold of me. its due to your broken technology that you deliberately sent to me 22 days ago.. so keep trying, best you can do
We have escalated your query to the relevant department, and they will be in contact with you to arrange a suitable time for the requested device swap.Should you have any more questions, please let us know.Add your reply
and how exactly are they going to get hold of me if you cant? how are they going to phone me exactly? it might be best to give me a number i can call to make this arrangement. i cant be told in email oh this day at this time without consulting me first if i am available.. tell me, why was this modem not delivered on the 10th as arranged before and why has no one called me since to say sorry we didnt come but we will this day or that day? why was it just left alone for 12 days further after the failed delivery. why was i not called that friday 10th to say they not coming? why did rain decide to just ignore its client after letting them down and perpetuating this further? you see i need answers and rain is refusing to give them.. you treated your client like a dog here and you expect this dog to be happy about it? i need answers please. who decided i was not getting that modem on the 10th and who decided to not deliver it after this and not let the client know? i need that person to be fired over this. they not only hurt me and my business, they hurt Rain's reputation as well. you should not be employing people like that...
We have escalated your query to the relevant department, and they will be in contact with you to arrange a suitable time for the requested device swap.Should you have any more questions, please let us know.Add your reply
and how exactly are they going to get hold of me if you cant? how are they going to phone me exactly? it might be best to give me a number i can call to make this arrangement. i cant be told in email oh this day at this time without consulting me first if i am available.. tell me, why was this modem not delivered on the 10th as arranged before and why has no one called me since to say sorry we didnt come but we will this day or that day? why was it just left alone for 12 days further after the failed delivery. why was i not called that friday 10th to say they not coming? why did rain decide to just ignore its client after letting them down and perpetuating this further? you see i need answers and rain is refusing to give them.. you treated your client like a dog here and you expect this dog to be happy about it? i need answers please. who decided i was not getting that modem on the 10th and who decided to not deliver it after this and not let the client know? i need that person to be fired over this. they not only hurt me and my business, they hurt Rain's reputation as well. you should not be employing people like that...
We will call you using your primary contact number unless an alternative is provided.
Humble apologies for the delay, our team is prioritising your query so we may get your device delivered asap.
that doesnt explain why the guy didnt deliver it on the 10th that 2 consultants said was happening and it also doesnt explain why no one came after or even called or emailed as to why they didnt come and when they would be. it was simply shelved and let go of and i do know it was deliberate as well. no pitch up on the 10th plus 12 days no email or phone call as to why or whats going on even when i enquired. i spoke to a guy monday who did exactly what you did today. forwarded it as urgent to department, yet no one even bothered to call me since. i had to come lay another complaint here just to get your attention again. my emails went ignored again. so yeah its deliberate this happened. can not be denied either for if rain really wanted that modem delivered, it would have been done on the 10th. i guarantee you we shall be chatting about this all over again in a few days time when again nothing will happen... i dont trust rain due to the way it treats its clients and also cost its client massive financial losses, and that again this month... i know for a fact, due to how long this is going on for (5 months already) that nothing will come from this and rain will continue to deliberately hurt my business.. its all you have done in last 5 months with these massive financial losses and i even had to sell property to by food. as it is i have to go to bed hungry today as i am out of funds and no help. no income at the moment due to rain and is delibrerate S A B O T A G E. you cant deny this at all as 46 days just to get the modem right is evidence of this. also no one has gone to fix the tower in avoca since 12th december when this all started. i have lost 3.5k per month since and rain really doesnt care, all rain cares about is the money i must pay them for this S A B O T A G E... i can prove that too. rain has refused to reimburse me the money for those months as well. i should not be paying for this at all. as it is i have to starve again today... so yeah thanks for that as well. nice to see a company i pay money to only hurts my business to the point where its no longer earning money which is why i got internet with you in the first place, 11 years ago, just to have my business destroyed and now i face starvation. now you know the impact you have done to your client through this all. thank you for that and thank you for treating me like a dog of a bank account for you. for thats all i am and ever will be
We will call you using your primary contact number unless an alternative is provided.
Humble apologies for the delay, our team is prioritising your query so we may get your device delivered asap.
that doesnt explain why the guy didnt deliver it on the 10th that 2 consultants said was happening and it also doesnt explain why no one came after or even called or emailed as to why they didnt come and when they would be. it was simply shelved and let go of and i do know it was deliberate as well. no pitch up on the 10th plus 12 days no email or phone call as to why or whats going on even when i enquired. i spoke to a guy monday who did exactly what you did today. forwarded it as urgent to department, yet no one even bothered to call me since. i had to come lay another complaint here just to get your attention again. my emails went ignored again. so yeah its deliberate this happened. can not be denied either for if rain really wanted that modem delivered, it would have been done on the 10th. i guarantee you we shall be chatting about this all over again in a few days time when again nothing will happen... i dont trust rain due to the way it treats its clients and also cost its client massive financial losses, and that again this month... i know for a fact, due to how long this is going on for (5 months already) that nothing will come from this and rain will continue to deliberately hurt my business.. its all you have done in last 5 months with these massive financial losses and i even had to sell property to by food. as it is i have to go to bed hungry today as i am out of funds and no help. no income at the moment due to rain and is delibrerate S A B O T A G E. you cant deny this at all as 46 days just to get the modem right is evidence of this. also no one has gone to fix the tower in avoca since 12th december when this all started. i have lost 3.5k per month since and rain really doesnt care, all rain cares about is the money i must pay them for this S A B O T A G E... i can prove that too. rain has refused to reimburse me the money for those months as well. i should not be paying for this at all. as it is i have to starve again today... so yeah thanks for that as well. nice to see a company i pay money to only hurts my business to the point where its no longer earning money which is why i got internet with you in the first place, 11 years ago, just to have my business destroyed and now i face starvation. now you know the impact you have done to your client through this all. thank you for that and thank you for treating me like a dog of a bank account for you. for thats all i am and ever will be
Kindly note that I attempted to contact you but was unable to reach you.
Please be advised that our team will be in touch with you throughout the day to arrange delivery, as your package is scheduled for delivery today.
Thanks,
rain.
for public records to show, my response was to this message.. i hate this reply in private, the public needs to see your replies too, so they can see the L I E S being told
Kindly note that I attempted to contact you but was unable to reach you.
Please be advised that our team will be in touch with you throughout the day to arrange delivery, as your package is scheduled for delivery today.
Thanks,
rain.
for public records to show, my response was to this message.. i hate this reply in private, the public needs to see your replies too, so they can see the L I E S being told
Please be advised that our team has attempted to contact you regarding the delivery but was unable to reach you.
Kindly provide an alternative contact number or a convenient time for us to call so we can proceed with the delivery arrangements.
Thanks,
rain.
please be advised that only two phone calls came through today from YOU personally. no one else has called or even emailed me on this and my phone is with me all the time. also be advised that i am going to JAIL everyone who is conspiring to destroy my business and you L I E D to me on this public platform as well. if they callled i would get an sms saying missed call from rain. it did not happen, no one called and no one came today and was never coming.... you are L Y I N G to me. and you are going to be summond to court about this and if found guilty. i will put you in JAIL
Please be advised that our team has attempted to contact you regarding the delivery but was unable to reach you.
Kindly provide an alternative contact number or a convenient time for us to call so we can proceed with the delivery arrangements.
Thanks,
rain.
please be advised that only two phone calls came through today from YOU personally. no one else has called or even emailed me on this and my phone is with me all the time. also be advised that i am going to JAIL everyone who is conspiring to destroy my business and you L I E D to me on this public platform as well. if they callled i would get an sms saying missed call from rain. it did not happen, no one called and no one came today and was never coming.... you are L Y I N G to me. and you are going to be summond to court about this and if found guilty. i will put you in JAIL
mybroadband.co.za
The team that created the best mobile network in South Africa
Top fan
Ken Seagreen
stay away from rain South Africa they are actively destroying my business and its deliberate. i have serious complaints on hello peter as well about how they are deliberately Sabotaging my service and business. its been 45 days and they still cant replace a broken modem they sent me deliberately as this has been going on for 5 months already. so instead of sending me a genuine modem, they sent me a second hand broken one on 1 april, 24 days after it was ordered 7 times as someone at rain South Africa cancelled it over and over. i complained on the 3rd april about the broken modem and up until today its not been replaced yet delivery date was 10th april and no one there has called me to arrange a new date or tell me why it wasnt delivered. they said today its coming and yet nothing, no calls and no emails either.. rain South Africa is committing *****, sabotage, ******ion and forcing me to pay for this as well. they refuse to fix this as a whole and even refuse to go fix a tower thats the cause of all of this. they ignore me totally and i cant work online anymore and my business is facing financial collapse at the moment due to it. 5 months no online remote work allowed because of this... so stay away from them, they will make you pay their installment per month to destroy your business.. i am going public on the *******ion and sabotage of Rain soon enough and i am going to take them on legally as well and have those responsible for this jailed...
mybroadband.co.za
The team that created the best mobile network in South Africa
Top fan
Ken Seagreen
stay away from rain South Africa they are actively destroying my business and its deliberate. i have serious complaints on hello peter as well about how they are deliberately Sabotaging my service and business. its been 45 days and they still cant replace a broken modem they sent me deliberately as this has been going on for 5 months already. so instead of sending me a genuine modem, they sent me a second hand broken one on 1 april, 24 days after it was ordered 7 times as someone at rain South Africa cancelled it over and over. i complained on the 3rd april about the broken modem and up until today its not been replaced yet delivery date was 10th april and no one there has called me to arrange a new date or tell me why it wasnt delivered. they said today its coming and yet nothing, no calls and no emails either.. rain South Africa is committing *****, sabotage, ******ion and forcing me to pay for this as well. they refuse to fix this as a whole and even refuse to go fix a tower thats the cause of all of this. they ignore me totally and i cant work online anymore and my business is facing financial collapse at the moment due to it. 5 months no online remote work allowed because of this... so stay away from them, they will make you pay their installment per month to destroy your business.. i am going public on the *******ion and sabotage of Rain soon enough and i am going to take them on legally as well and have those responsible for this jailed...
We understand your concern and frustration regarding your recent experience, and we want to assure you that we are continuously working to improve our service for all our customers.Please be advised that your payment made in March was refunded. Additionally, a credit has been app**** to your account for the inconvenience caused.
Should you require any further assistance please let us know.
Thanks,
rain.
firstly this has been going on since December 12th with a faulty avoca tower you still refuse to go fix... so the problem still is perpetuating as the service is still the bad same as it was when i had ZTE modem, you send a defective broken second hand modem that took 24 days to get to me and then another 23 days to get this new modem to me last friday... explain how it took you 47 days just to sort a modem out only to find out its the tower afterall that you refused to fix in december and still refuse to fix. my demand of payments coming back to me are for 1 Jan (decembers bill), 1 Feb (jans bill) and 1 march( febs bill) that you charged me for your S A B O T A G E of my service and business. then you just L I E D to me, march money was not refunded as no money was paid into my account at all, i can prove that. you only gave me a credit for march and april and in those two months i didnt get much use of it due to modem delivery failures and severely bad internet connection and you deliberately sent me a broken second hand modem with parts missing as well. it took nearly whole of march to get that broken modem to me and almost whole of april to replace it. i am also still being harrased by a courier company that still says its has a modem for me which i dont even know about. rain itself came here last friday to deliver it. so i dont even know why CCD couriers are h a r r a s s i n g me over this. so stop L Y I N G in public about the march bill being refunded, it was not and no money was paid back into my account for this. you only gave 2 months credit which i couldnt really enjoy or use due to bad modems and replacements taking whole months to do... this has been going on for 5 months now and you only gave me 2 months credit. i want the 3 months i paid money for to be reimbursed as i refuse to pay for this S A B O T A G E on my service and business which lead to thousands lost and no remote work was able to be done for 5 months. i still cant do remote work due to internet often not here and having to reboot this modem often daily due to a faulty tower! which you still refuse to go fix. so stop L Y I N G to me, my bank account does not show a refund to it for March. i want all payments from the time of this starting 12th december up until you gave the credit. thats 3 months installments of which one you charged me half price which was on 1 march.. so its R589 times 2 and R294.50 that must be paid directly into my account. failure to do this is forcing me to pay for your S A B O T A G E on my service and account and hence hurt my business badly financially to the point of financial collapse. i refuse to pay for that. you caused this and you must fix this. do the right thing. you also have to think about the losses incurred in my business for if you fixed that tower in december, none of this would be happening now, i wouldnt even had to give up a good modem that was never the issue for this inferior 101 modem. ZTE is a better brand! it turns out it was never the modem which i had swapped to try fix this issue myself since rain was refusing to do anything about it. i got ignored often. L I E D to by 10 consultants, L I E D to by you now also about march refunded, it was NOT! your AI in whatsapp L I E S to people as well and a consultant at rain confirmed rain knows about Leila and Sam doing it. yet you dont even fix it and being aware of it and allowing it is F R A U D... you have deliberately hurt your client of 11 years and for no reason at all. all you had to do was go fix the tower, yet you still refuse. remember i can prove all of this and i will take this legally further. you hurt my business to the point of financial collapse and all this for a few installments and bad service you refused to fix... 47 days just to get the modem right only to see its the TOWER after all thats the issue as i keep repeating but get ignored about.. how dare you L I E to me about refund of march and in public about this. have you no shame? so get hold of me in emails and ask for my banking details and get those payments back to me. this will show you are serious about fixing this issue you caused in the first place and that you value your long existing clients. you will be telling the world you dont care about us if you dont do the right thing. then consider a settlement offer for the financial losses of 3.5k per month over 5 months and i lost a laptop and office pc i had to sell just to pay bills and buy food due to no remote work allowed on your network due to bad speeds and faulty tower. system unstable so i cant do the work as connection and internet dissappears all day every day. i still wake up to no internet in the mornings. this never happened before i got this inferior 101 modem compared to the ZTE. perhaps you should send that modem back to me, it was way better than what i have now... so go speak to who you must and get this solved asap, get my installments back to me and show that you care and are willing to do the right thing. you caused this and hurt your client and i know it was deliberate as its clearly seen on how long modems took, consultants L Y I N G to me and someone there kept cancelling the modem order. it took 7 orders to get it finally and that modem was broken and second hand, confirmed! then another 23 days to get a new working one which isnt helping at all. the speeds are the same, the service is terrible and i still cant work online, i did not have this issue with the ZTE. you need to go fix that faulty Avoca tower in durban north as well. your AI did say, i have proof, without that tower being fixed, it will only keep causing the issues.. and it is so... to be fair. i will give you till friday to figure this out and repay me whats due to me... its the right thing to do. i never damaged your business to the point where you are facing financial collapse but i will go public on this and you will damage your own reputation and then your business financially as people will abandon you as you did me... you cant deny any of this as i have proof and i will go legal about this as well. just do the right thing and save your self and business from a very rough time ahead
We understand your concern and frustration regarding your recent experience, and we want to assure you that we are continuously working to improve our service for all our customers.Please be advised that your payment made in March was refunded. Additionally, a credit has been app**** to your account for the inconvenience caused.
Should you require any further assistance please let us know.
Thanks,
rain.
firstly this has been going on since December 12th with a faulty avoca tower you still refuse to go fix... so the problem still is perpetuating as the service is still the bad same as it was when i had ZTE modem, you send a defective broken second hand modem that took 24 days to get to me and then another 23 days to get this new modem to me last friday... explain how it took you 47 days just to sort a modem out only to find out its the tower afterall that you refused to fix in december and still refuse to fix. my demand of payments coming back to me are for 1 Jan (decembers bill), 1 Feb (jans bill) and 1 march( febs bill) that you charged me for your S A B O T A G E of my service and business. then you just L I E D to me, march money was not refunded as no money was paid into my account at all, i can prove that. you only gave me a credit for march and april and in those two months i didnt get much use of it due to modem delivery failures and severely bad internet connection and you deliberately sent me a broken second hand modem with parts missing as well. it took nearly whole of march to get that broken modem to me and almost whole of april to replace it. i am also still being harrased by a courier company that still says its has a modem for me which i dont even know about. rain itself came here last friday to deliver it. so i dont even know why CCD couriers are h a r r a s s i n g me over this. so stop L Y I N G in public about the march bill being refunded, it was not and no money was paid back into my account for this. you only gave 2 months credit which i couldnt really enjoy or use due to bad modems and replacements taking whole months to do... this has been going on for 5 months now and you only gave me 2 months credit. i want the 3 months i paid money for to be reimbursed as i refuse to pay for this S A B O T A G E on my service and business which lead to thousands lost and no remote work was able to be done for 5 months. i still cant do remote work due to internet often not here and having to reboot this modem often daily due to a faulty tower! which you still refuse to go fix. so stop L Y I N G to me, my bank account does not show a refund to it for March. i want all payments from the time of this starting 12th december up until you gave the credit. thats 3 months installments of which one you charged me half price which was on 1 march.. so its R589 times 2 and R294.50 that must be paid directly into my account. failure to do this is forcing me to pay for your S A B O T A G E on my service and account and hence hurt my business badly financially to the point of financial collapse. i refuse to pay for that. you caused this and you must fix this. do the right thing. you also have to think about the losses incurred in my business for if you fixed that tower in december, none of this would be happening now, i wouldnt even had to give up a good modem that was never the issue for this inferior 101 modem. ZTE is a better brand! it turns out it was never the modem which i had swapped to try fix this issue myself since rain was refusing to do anything about it. i got ignored often. L I E D to by 10 consultants, L I E D to by you now also about march refunded, it was NOT! your AI in whatsapp L I E S to people as well and a consultant at rain confirmed rain knows about Leila and Sam doing it. yet you dont even fix it and being aware of it and allowing it is F R A U D... you have deliberately hurt your client of 11 years and for no reason at all. all you had to do was go fix the tower, yet you still refuse. remember i can prove all of this and i will take this legally further. you hurt my business to the point of financial collapse and all this for a few installments and bad service you refused to fix... 47 days just to get the modem right only to see its the TOWER after all thats the issue as i keep repeating but get ignored about.. how dare you L I E to me about refund of march and in public about this. have you no shame? so get hold of me in emails and ask for my banking details and get those payments back to me. this will show you are serious about fixing this issue you caused in the first place and that you value your long existing clients. you will be telling the world you dont care about us if you dont do the right thing. then consider a settlement offer for the financial losses of 3.5k per month over 5 months and i lost a laptop and office pc i had to sell just to pay bills and buy food due to no remote work allowed on your network due to bad speeds and faulty tower. system unstable so i cant do the work as connection and internet dissappears all day every day. i still wake up to no internet in the mornings. this never happened before i got this inferior 101 modem compared to the ZTE. perhaps you should send that modem back to me, it was way better than what i have now... so go speak to who you must and get this solved asap, get my installments back to me and show that you care and are willing to do the right thing. you caused this and hurt your client and i know it was deliberate as its clearly seen on how long modems took, consultants L Y I N G to me and someone there kept cancelling the modem order. it took 7 orders to get it finally and that modem was broken and second hand, confirmed! then another 23 days to get a new working one which isnt helping at all. the speeds are the same, the service is terrible and i still cant work online, i did not have this issue with the ZTE. you need to go fix that faulty Avoca tower in durban north as well. your AI did say, i have proof, without that tower being fixed, it will only keep causing the issues.. and it is so... to be fair. i will give you till friday to figure this out and repay me whats due to me... its the right thing to do. i never damaged your business to the point where you are facing financial collapse but i will go public on this and you will damage your own reputation and then your business financially as people will abandon you as you did me... you cant deny any of this as i have proof and i will go legal about this as well. just do the right thing and save your self and business from a very rough time ahead
