RD
Robert D'Alton

1 reviews | Active since Apr 2018

25 Apr 2018, 11:26

We Buy Cars Midstream non-compliant to the South African Consumer protection Act

My son Joshua bought a 2011 BMW 320i from Webuycars Midstream, Centurion on Saturday 21 April 2018, for which I paid ZAR119,000. The sales person, Francois Schoeman, was very helpful and guided Joshua to this car as it had no faults. Joshua drove the car to Cape Town the next day, Sunday 22 April 2018.

On Monday morning 23 April 2018 he remarked to me that the car had a bit of a rough idle and that the aircon did not get cold on the way down from Centurion to Cape town.

On Tuesday morning, 24 April 2018, two and a half days after buying the car, after a night of rain there was water on the floor of the left rear passenger floor, even though the door and window were closed properly, and the car would not start. Strangely the windscreen wipers came on when inserting the key and stayed on.

We checked the battery by using another fairly new car battery. That was not the problem.

On Wednesday morning 25 April 2018, I called Francois Schoeman and asked him what we could do. He asked me to speak to his manager - Marc (Scollie?). Marc pulled out the old hack of having bought the car "as is" and therefore there is no comeback, and they will not do anything. I told him I did not want to fight - just get the problem solved, that I knew my rights under the Consumer Protection Act and that I would be going to Hello Peter if he did not uphold those rights. He said that I need to do that.

Here is a summary of the CPA according to the following site: https://www.bregmans.co.za/second-hand-car-dealers-cpa/

Second hand car dealers and the CPA

What happens if the second-hand car that I just bought turns out to be defective?

You need to distinguish between a private sale (where you buy from someone who does not sell cars every day) and a motor dealer who sells cars in the ordinary course of business.

If you buy a car from a private seller, only the common law will assist and you can’t rely on the Consumer Protection Act (CPA) for help. The protection that you enjoy under the common law is the subject of another article. In short, when you buy something, there is an imp**** warrantee that the thing sold is free from any defects. It is, however, possible that one can contract out of this imp**** warranty by inserting a term into the contract that says that the sale is voetstoots (that you buy the goods “as is” [warts and all] and cannot rely on the imp**** right to defect-free goods and complain later if you find certain defects in the goods).

In the context of buying a second-hand car: The CPA applies to consumers and suppliers of goods; A consumer, is a person who has entered into a transaction with a supplier in the ordinary course of the supplier’s business, to buy a second-hand car; A supplier is a person who supplies second-hand cars in the ordinary course of his business; The CPA contains certain prohibited provisions that prevent a motor dealer from entering into a sale agreement with a consumer that contains provisions that: defeats the purposes and policy of the CPA; directly or indirectly waives or deprives a consumer of a right entrenched in the CPA; avoids a supplier’s duty in terms of the CPA; sets aside or overrides the effect of any provision contained in the CPA; limits or exempts a supplier of goods or services from liability for any loss attributable to the supplier’s gross negligence.

The regulations to the CPA provides that a term that that excludes or restricts the consumer’s rights or remedies against the supplier, or limits the supplier’s obligation to honour his or her obligations, shall be presumed to be unfair and unreasonable;

The CPA contains an Imp**** Warrantee of Quality that in any transaction or agreement pertaining to the supply of goods to a consumer: There is an imp**** provision that the producer or importer, the distributor and the retailer each warrant that the car is safe and of good quality; The imp**** warranty is in addition to any other imp**** warranty imposed by the common law or any other public regulation as well as any express warranty or condition that the consumer has in respect of the goods; This warranty is valid for a period of six months. The six-month period is calculated from the date of delivery of the car to the consumer. During this period, the consumer may return the defective car without penalty and at the supplier’s risk and expense.

When a consumer relies upon the imp**** warranty of quality when returning the car, the consumer has the election as to whether the supplier must repair or replace the car, or whether the supplier should merely refund the consumer the price paid for the car. If the consumer elects that the dealer must repair the car, if within three months of repair the failure or defect is not remedied or another failure or defect arises, the supplier must replace the car or refund the consumer the price paid by the consumer for the car. The imp**** warranty entrenched in the CPA is in addition to any other imp**** warranty or condition imposed by the common law or any other public regulation, and, is in addition to any express warranty or condition given by the producer or importer, distributor or retailer. Car dealers think that they can get out of their obligations under the CPA merely by getting the buyer to sign a contract containing a voetstoots clause. This is wrong. The only way that dealers can get past the imp**** warranty is by advising the consumer that the car is being offered in a certain condition. The consumer must then agree to accept the goods in that particular condition. E.g. a motor dealer should explain that the beat-up Volksie is not new, point out the obvious and not-so-obvious defects and if the consumer accepts this, then the sale would be as-is. The dealer should describe the condition of the goods in specific detail to make it clear in which condition the car is being sold. The buyer then must “expressly agree” to accept the goods. Only if the buyer “knowingly acted in a manner consistent with accepting goods in (a less than ideal) condition” would the imp**** warranty of quality fall away. Every defect must be described in the contract of sale that the buyer signs.

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Replies (18)
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply25 Apr 2018, 12:02
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you for making us aware of this situation. We are currently investigating the matter and will revert back with feedback as soon as possible.

Regards,

RD
Robert D'Alton's update25 Apr 2018, 13:54
Reviewer Update
Hi Thank you for the quick response. I am that WBC will do the legally correct thing and give me the legally required options to (a) have the defects repaired at WBCs cost, (b) cancel the deal, (c) replace the car with another car of my choice. We would ideally go for (a) as we like the car overall. Regards Robert D'Alton
RD
Robert D'Alton's update26 Apr 2018, 11:35
Reviewer Update
Auric BMW Claremont has today quoted +- R38k plus to replace the immobiliser system which was damaged due to the leaking door rubber. I have asked them to include the replacement of the leaking door rubber Unless WBC is going to quickly decide to pay for these repairs I want to cancel the whole transaction, and get my R119k back. In the meantime I'm stuck without transport!
RD
Robert D'Alton's update26 Apr 2018, 11:42
Reviewer Update
Please call me urgently on ********** 202 to resolve this issue. I have not even had time to register the car in my name. It is therefore still in WBC's name.
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply26 Apr 2018, 11:45
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your message, kindly find that it has been escalated to our Midstream Branch Manager to get in touch with you as soon as possible.

Regards,

RD
Robert D'Alton's update26 Apr 2018, 12:00
Reviewer Update
Hi. Is this the same branch manager (Marc Scollie) that told me that he is not taking any responsibility, and can't and won't do anything? What has changed that will resolve this issue? Has he been given instructions from head office to comply to the provisions of the consumer protection act, and either repair, refund, or replace - the choice being mine and not WBCs? At the moment my choice is cancel and refund, unless WBC comes up with a much better solution. Regards, Robert D'Alton
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply26 Apr 2018, 14:41
Official

Hi Robert,

After receiving a full report back from Auric BMW Claremont, the DME Box had a crack in it and was not sealed properly in the engine compartment. The water ran in causing damage to the DME Box which resulted initially in rough idling and eventually vehicle not starting.

We Buy Cars could not prevent this happening, nor detect the defect. As Joshua was driving all the way to Cape Town, we did recommend him taking the vehicle for a service beforehand, which might have prevented this from happening.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused and will be refunding you due to the defect.

Marc Schärli will be in touch with your son to make the necessary arrangements.

Warm Regards,

RD
Robert D'Alton's update26 Apr 2018, 14:49
Reviewer Update
Hi Thank you very much for the quick response and for upholding my rights under the CPA. Marc Scharli contacted me and the refund process has been started, Regards Robert
RD
Robert D'Alton's update30 Apr 2018, 10:22
Reviewer Update
Hi. Now I'm becoming unhappy again. On Thursday 26 April +- 14:30 I spoke to Marc Scharli, the Midstream branch manager of We Buy Cars in Gauteng. He promised a quick refund as soon as the car has been collected by We Buy Cars from Auric Auto. Given that Friday 27 April was a public holiday, there was all of Thursday afternoon and Saturday to collect the car. I checked with Auric Auto this morning, Monday 30 April 2018 and nobody has made any arrangements with them to collect the car yet. Also nobody has contacted me to keep me aware of the progress in doing this. In the meantime my ZAR 119k is tied up and i can't look around for a replacement vehicle.
RD
Robert D'Alton's update30 Apr 2018, 14:12
Reviewer Update
Hi. That was fast. I have the full ZAR119k back in my account. Thank you whoever. Regards Robert.
RD
Robert D'Alton's update02 May 2018, 10:39
Reviewer Update
Hi almost there. I now need to be refunded the amount of ZAR1690.50 that I had to pay Auric BMW for the diagnostic. The Odendaals Towing tow-truck pitched up at my house to collect the car on Monday 30 April 2018. I accompanied the driver to Auric BMW to ensure that the car was safely on its way back to We Buy Cars. Auric BMW would not release the car until their outstanding account was paid. Somebody from We Buy Cars had been at Auric BMW earlier that same day and undertook to pay the account, when it was revised to invoice We Buy Cars instead of me. To move things along I paid the account, and watched the car being towed safely away. I asked the Auric BMW service person to change the invoice and send it to We Buy Cars with the note that it had been paid by me. She copied me on the e-mail, which I received the same day. I am now waiting for that to be repaid into my account, before I can close this case completely.
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply02 May 2018, 10:42
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you for letting us know. Kindly find that we will send your latest message through to our Branch Manager for further assistance in this matter. We will revert back again with feedback as soon as possible.

Regards,

RD
Robert D'Alton's update07 May 2018, 11:25
Reviewer Update
Hi. No action yet!
RD
Robert D'Alton's update14 May 2018, 12:26
Reviewer Update
It is now 14 May and I have still not received the ZAR1690.50 that I had to pay Auric BMW for the diagnostic.
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply14 May 2018, 12:32
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you for letting us know. I have informed our branch manager, who will personally see to it that this is sorted out today.

Please accept our sincerest apologies for the inconvenience, and I will let you know as soon as I have received confirmation that the payment has been made.

Regards,

Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply14 May 2018, 14:44
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your patience throughout this entire situation.

Kindly find that I have been informed that the Invoice has been handed to our Finance department who will assist with the payment by the end of the day. Should you require any further assistance, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Warm Regards,

RD
Robert D'Alton's update15 May 2018, 16:06
Reviewer Update
Hi. Got the refund thank you. Case closed, and I am happy in the end.
Webuycars.co.za
Webuycars.co.za's reply16 May 2018, 07:17
Official

Hi Robert,

Thank you so much, we are so happy that we were able to assist you.

Should you require anything else from our side, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Regards,