AN
Andre N

1 reviews | Active since Nov 2019

01 Nov 2019, 11:37

Prescribed debt!!!!!!!!!!

After I have sent numerous emails ( below ) and made several phone calls stating the below I am still harassed by you on both my personal and work phone ( this is putting my work in jeopardy). I have since approached the NCR regarding the prescribed debt as I am getting no reply from you. I expect the harassment to stop with immediate effect as you are not adhering to the prescribed debt law. You’re own consultant confirmed that last payment was received in 2015, we are now in 2019 a debt prescribes once a 3 year period has been reached without a court order, summons or hand delivered and signed for lawyer letters the debt has prescribed. ( see email below ) furthermore I don’t know how many times more must I raise the defense of prescription to you, none of your departments respond ( see email below ). Andries Jonathan Nieuwoudt *** You can correspond with me via email: ***

Morning Adwina

I have had no reply on my email below and I am still receiving calls, I have also contacted Experian yesterday and as you are aware they are one of the biggest credit companies. They also agree with below and they advised me to send 1 last email requesting that below be adhered to, if phone calls persist they will investigate further

Thank you

Regards Andre J. Nieuwoudt Executive Chef

On 30 Oct 2019, at 08:15, Andre Nieuwoudt <***> wrote:

Morning Adwina

That you for confirming that the last payment on the account was indeed 2015, this indeed confirms that the debt on my account has prescribed, please follow email trail below as I won’t hesitate to contact the credit ombudsman. Again you are phoning me on my work phone and this is jeopardizing my employment again I am asking this to stop with immediate effect. Please provide below information from your side that in the last 3 years you have 1. Issued a summons 2. Obtained a court order 3. Hand delivered lawyers letter that I signed for

This debt has prescribed. I have also emailed you accounts department and I have been corresponding with Cyril ( see email trail )

Regards Andre J. Nieuwoudt ID ***

Begin forwarded message:

From: Andre Nieuwoudt <***> Date: 29 October 2019 at 15:45:34 SAST To: *** Subject: Fwd: Please read below

Please see below sent to Cyril and respond with relevant documentation as this debt has prescribed, below my ID number ***, please note this matter has been escalated to the credit ombudsman as I am still receiving harassment calls on both my work and private phone after I clearly made you aware of below

Regards Andre J. Nieuwoudt

Begin forwarded message:

From: Andre Nieuwoudt <***> Date: 29 October 2019 at 11:43:42 SAST To: *** Subject: Please read below

Morning Cyril Fyi below

The National Credit Act (NCA) prohibits the collection of and the sale of prescribed debt (see below). However, the office of the Credit Ombud says that most consumers are unaware of the further provisions of the Prescription Act, which governs the prescription of debt, and their rights under this Act.

Phillip Nortjie, a debt counsellor, says: “The law states that if a credit provider does not issue a summons and serve it on you at the correct domiciliumaddress, or obtain judgment against you within three years of you defaulting on payment of an account, you can rely on the defence of prescription by stating that the claim has lapsed or expired. In other words, if no payments were made, no promises to pay were made, or you did not admit that the debt existed during the three-year period, prescription sets in.”

The Credit Ombud, Nicky Lala-Mohan, says that if, after a debt has prescribed, the credit provider attempts to collect the debt from you, the onus is on you to “claim the defence of prescription”. Credit providers are legally entitled to collect a debt, even after the debt owing has technically prescribed, provided that the debtor has not raised the defence of prescription.

You also need to be aware that not all debt prescribes after three years. Retail debt relating to credit cards, personal loans, gym contracts, cellphone accounts, electricity accounts and school fees, prescribes after three years. However, debt relating to home loans, money due to the South African Revenue Service, municipal rates and TV licences prescribes after 30 years.

Lala-Mohan says in some instances consumers unwittingly interrupt prescription by acknowledging the debt or making a minimal payment towards the debt.

Despite the law having been in effect for years now, he says his office still receives complaints from consumers who are asked to pay for debt that has prescribed.

The following section was inserted in the NCA after section 126A: Section 126B: Application of prescription of debt. (1) (a) No person may sell a debt under a credit agreement to which this Act applies and that has been extinguished by prescription under the Prescription Act, 1969 (Act No. 68 of 1969). (b) No person may continue the collection of, or re-activate a debt under a credit agreement to which this Act applies – (i) which debt has been extinguished by prescription under the Prescription Act, 1969 (Act No. 68 of 1969); and (ii) where the consumer raises the defence of prescription, or would reasonably have raised the defence of prescription had the consumer been aware of such a defence, in response to a demand, whether as part of legal proceedings or otherwise.’

What do to when contacted for debts that have prescribed Contact the office of the Credit Ombud for free assistance. Phone ***, visit www.creditombud.org.za, email *** or send an SMS to 44786 and they will call you.

Thank you Regards Andre J. Nieuwoudt

0
Replies (27)
Digicall
Digicall's reply04 Nov 2019, 11:39
Official
Good day Andre 

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Please note that we will raise it with our accounts department and get back to you within 72 hours. 
Please note that you can raise a dispute against a credit bureau listing on such, by doing so the Credit bureau has 21 days to remove the listing after contacting us to verify the prescription. Also, note that your accounts were all handed over due to non-payments so we are not able to track the lawyers calling you even if you do qualify for a prescription.

Kind regards
ISmart
AN
Andre N's update04 Nov 2019, 12:30
Reviewer Update
Morning, I can guarantee you that I had no calls or any correspondence from your Lawyers. Surely you should know which lawyers you use for handing account over, and surely they should have correspondence and or call logs, so surely you can obtain such information from them seeing that you are a client of theirs, otherwise how would you get further information????
Digicall
Digicall's reply04 Nov 2019, 15:49
Official
Good day Andre 

I'm not sure what you need from Ismart as the accounts are not with us anymore.

At Ismart we only require our debt collectors to send us proof of paid-up accounts and not call recordings as we do not interfere with their operations, note that they are registered and operate within the law as per NCR, I did mention that there is an NCR process in place for prescribed debt, as I've explained earlier.

Kind regards
ISmart
AN
Andre N's update05 Nov 2019, 14:41
Reviewer Update
afternoon
In response to your reply, you said the account is no longer with you however why am I receiving calls from your call center ***? Again I am called on my work phone??
Again I am going to state the following with supported information: I have not had a summons, or court order or lawyers letter ( hand delivered to me and signed for ) in the past or for the last 4 years. Again I am now stating that the debt has prescribed and under law I am allowed to raise this with your account department and thus the harassment according to law must stop. Below I am again pasting the following for your attention and I hope that this time you understand. I has nothing to do with a listing as per you email it’s has everything to do with prescribed debt!!!!!!!!!!’

The National Credit Act (NCA) prohibits the collection of and the sale of prescribed debt (see below). However, the office of the Credit Ombud says that most consumers are unaware of the further provisions of the Prescription Act, which governs the prescription of debt, and their rights under this Act.

The following section was inserted in the NCA after section 126A:
Section 126B: Application of prescription of debt.
(1) (a) No person may sell a debt under a credit agreement to which this Act applies and that has been extinguished by prescription under the Prescription Act, 1969 (Act No. 68 of 1969).
(b) No person may continue the collection of, or re-activate a debt under a credit agreement to which this Act applies –
(i) which debt has been extinguished by prescription under the Prescription Act, 1969 (Act No. 68 of 1969); and
(ii) where the consumer raises the defence of prescription, or would reasonably have raised the defence of prescription had the consumer been aware of such a defence, in response to a demand, whether as part of legal proceedings or otherwise.’

I expect the following to happen with immediate effect unless you can provide me with proof that the debt has not prescribed. Please note I am in my full right as a consumer.

Stop calling me I raised the defense of prescription.

AN
Andre N's update02 Jan 2020, 09:37
Reviewer Update
For more than a month I had no calls from this company, and now they start harassing me again for prescribed debt. Calling me from different numbers this time ( *** ) they are calling outside the allowed hours by the CFDC, they are also calling me on my work phone which is not allowed by my employer. I have escalated this matter to the CFDC for further investigation. They are not following the rules. I am also escalating this matter to attorneys. Below is what the CFDC says about the practices rules and regulation regarding harassment calls from debt collectors. That said they are calling me for debt that supposedly occurred in 2015, 5 years later. I have asked them to communicate over email, they don’t get back to you, they don’t send proof that this was handed over, no proof of legal letters, no proof of Summons.

Debt collectors can’t:

  • Call before 8am or after 9pm, unless the consumer has given them permission
  • Call on a Sunday
  • Contact consumers at work if they know that the consumers employer doesn’t want them to be contacted during work hours
  • Get in touch with your employer about the debt you owe, unless that debt is past-due child maintenance
  • Contact relatives, friends or neighbours to embarrass you into paying your debt. They can however contact them to find out how to get in touch with you but are not permitted to say why they need the information.
  • Communicate with you about your debt by using a post card or an envelope that clearly indicates that a debt collector sent it.
  • Call you over and over again during a relatively short period of time. For example calling you repeatedly during a single morning or afternoon.
  • Swear or insult you when you are having a conversation with them.
  • Order you to accept calls from them.
  • Deposit a post-dated check you have given them before the date on the check.
  • Collect more than you owe on a debt unless the contract the debt collector signed with the creditor states that they can.



Digicall
Digicall's reply02 Jan 2020, 13:18
Official
Good day Andre, 

Matter has been escalated to relevant department and will be investigated accordingly. You will be contacted within the next 48 working hours by accounts manager on a way forward. 

Kind regards
ISmart 
AN
Andre N's update02 Jan 2020, 16:19
Reviewer Update
Thank you for your reply, I hope that this time I will be contacted unlike the previous empty promises. Please take note that I will correspond via email only so that I have all correspondence in writing, below my email address:
***
Awaiting your reply
Regards
Andre
Digicall
Digicall's reply03 Jan 2020, 12:54
Official
Good day Andre 

Just a quick update, your matter has been taken into account and is being processed. I personally advised Accounts Manager to correspond required feedback via preferred email.  

Kind regards
ISmart 
AN
Andre N's update03 Jan 2020, 12:57
Reviewer Update
Thank you much appreciated
AN
Andre N's update06 Jan 2020, 14:56
Reviewer Update
Good Day, I see as predicted i have yet to have received a email from you, yet your call centre is harassing me again for prescribed debt, how many more times do I have to raise this???????? They are still calling me on a work phone that I have now made clear in above messages that it’s not allowed by my employer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How damn *********** are you????? I made it very clear that the only correspondence must be on email I have provided to you so that I can have absolutely everything in writing.
Digicall
Digicall's reply06 Jan 2020, 16:21
Official
 Good day Andre,  In connection with the calls the matter has been escalated on Friday in order to remove your numbers from the contact list confirmation of that came through at 15:55 today. Concerning feedback via email I have followed up with collections manager, advised he will personally email you tomorrow before end of business day and resolve the issue entirely. Deadline for solution will be 07/01/2020  Kind Regards Imsart 
AN
Andre N's update06 Jan 2020, 16:32
Reviewer Update
Thank you
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 11:25
Reviewer Update
Morning, following your reply from yesterday re: I have been removed from the calling list after confirmation received. I have received yet another call from your call center on *** at 10:43 on my work phone ( for the 100th time this is not allowed by my employer ) seriously how many more times do I have to explain this, how many more times do I have to repeat myself, over and over and over again. This is a joke.......
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 13:16
Reviewer Update
Yet another call on my work phone at 12:38, and still no email......
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 13:41
Reviewer Update
And phoned again at 13:37, so I guess yesterday’s promises forgotten today, just shows you they haven’t a clue. I am keeping all these messages as proof
Digicall
Digicall's reply07 Jan 2020, 14:00
Official
  Good day Andre,  The following contact numbers were added to the do not contact list ***, *** and ***, the fact that you are being contacted after the matter has been escalated is highly noted and will be handled accordingly , you have been patient with us during this regrettable situation we sincerely thank you for that.  We have also added your contracts to our exclusions list as they have prescribed. Please refer to the email sent by Accounts Manager to ***  Kind Regards Imsart 
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 14:23
Reviewer Update
Thank you so much and thank you for all your help, just to confirm my email address: ***, I have not yet received an email, will let you know by close of day if I have not received an email yet
Digicall
Digicall's reply07 Jan 2020, 14:48
Official
Good day Andre, 

email was sent this morning  08:57 AM, I am unable to see contact number and your preferred email as this is a live chat and personal information is encrypted can you perhaps send your updated email address to SmartMobile inbox or is there an advisable time for me to contact you and confirm your email ? 

Kind Regards
Imsart 
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 14:56
Reviewer Update
Thank thank, as below
andrenieuwoudt51

@

Gmail
.com


Digicall
Digicall's reply07 Jan 2020, 15:25
Official
Good day Andre, 

That is the exact email we forwarded the relevant information to, also we have an email thread between you and Customer Service dated back from October 2019. 

Regadrs 
Ismart
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 15:29
Reviewer Update
Thank you, I will have a look again to see if it has come through, will let you know
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 16:15
Reviewer Update
I have gone through my emails and I have not received anything, please can I ask if email can be forwarded to me again. Thank you for your time much appreciated
Digicall
Digicall's reply07 Jan 2020, 16:29
Official
Good day Andre, 

Email has been forwarded as per request, please check spam folder as well. 

Regards
Ismart  
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 16:37
Reviewer Update
Will do and thank you
AN
Andre N's update07 Jan 2020, 16:47
Reviewer Update
Thank you to all parties involved at ismart, I have received the email and I am glad the matter has been resolved.
AN
Andre N's update08 Jan 2020, 08:23
Reviewer Update
Morning, after the help I received yesterday and the acknowledgement that the debt has prescribed as per the email from ismart received yesterday. I am again being phoned this morning from ismart. Please can this just stop now.
Digicall
Digicall's reply08 Jan 2020, 17:49
Official
 Hi Andre , 

As per our email correspondence please see below feedback.. The issue was escalated and a fix has been put in place to prevent this from occurring again. We suspect that there was a technical issue with the format of the number and our system recording the initial request. Please monitor and advise if there is still an issue. 

Kind Regards 
SmartMobile