PS
Philip S
1 reviews | Active since May 2022
23 May 2022, 22:00
Shocking service, no feedback and extreme delays from BB Ford and Ford SA
Since my previous review was removed for some reason, I will post another one. I will keep it factual, with some assumptions which will be clearly labeled. Fact1 - I took my 2015 Ford Fiesta Auto to BB Menlyn Ford, and told them the gears were not shifting properly. This was on 8 April. Reasonable Assumption - Ford would diagnose the problem and let me know what repairs are required and the cost. I don't believe that it is unreasonable to assume that all components should have been checked, and that a qualified technician would have considered that a damaged TCM may have caused damage to the clutch. Surely it is acceptable practice to make sure that all damaged parts had been identified prior to quoting for a repair. Fact2 - Ford let me know that the TCM and the catalytic converter needed to be replaced at a cost of R 42 000. I assumed the two components were to blame for the gear shifting problem. At no point was I told these were two separate issues, and a vehicle can drive without a catalytic converter. The majority of the cost was for the catalytic converter. Fact3 - I paid for the repairs, and afterwards was told that the clutch also needed to be replaced at a further cost of R 37 000. This was communicated to me 7 days after the car was supposed to be ready. In their email to me Ford confirmed that when they put the old TCM back, the car performed better, but the clutch is damaged. Reasonable assumption - If the old component performed better than the new one, then surely the TCM was not the issue. Fact4 - I told Ford that they should remove the components, refund me, and I would either have my vehicle repaired somewhere else, or buy a new one since the repairs would now cost me more than 75% of the value of the vehicle. Ford took another 6 days to let me know that they could not return the TCM since more than 7 days had passed. Nothing was said about the catalytic converter. Fact5 - I repeatedly attempted to reach the dealer principal, to no avail. I then escalated the matter to Ford South Africa. On 6 May Ford SA informed me that they would assist in the repairs, and they requested that BB Ford send them the technical reports and pictures. Fact6 - BB Ford did not send the required documents until 17 May, after I had to call them and find out why the documents were not being sent. It therefore took BB Ford 11 days to send reports they were supposed to have, since they allegedly did the analysis. Fact7 - Ford SA confirmed that they had received the documents, and were just waiting for confirmation if the parts needed to be ordered, and when the repairs would be done. Fact8 - The next day Ford SA informed me that the repairs had now been denied. Fact9 - When I called BB Ford that same day, I informed them that they could use the refund for the catalytic converter to repair the clutch. They then informed me that this would not be possible since more than 30 days had passed, and they could no longer return the catalytic converter. This despite the fact that I instructed them to return the parts on 20 April. When I informed them of this, they undertook to get back to me, and again failed to do so. Since then BB Ford has made no reasonable attempt to resolve this matter, and continue to insist that they had done nothing wrong. Should a dealership not identify all the damaged parts prior to informing a client what the damages were, and provide a quote for payment? Considering the costs involved, is it unreasonable to expect that BB Ford would inform me that the catalytic converter could be bypassed, and replaced at a later date. Should a dealership not attempt to assist their clients in as short a timeframe as possible, and not continually delay the matter? Is it unreasonable to expect Ford SA to hold their franchises to a standard of care? Clients take their vehicles to Ford dealerships with the expectation that they would receive quality assistance, but in reality Ford SA can throw their hands in the air and claim to be unable to assist in any reasonable way. I await BB Ford, or Ford SA's response.
Helpful (0)
Replies (2)0
Replies (2)
BB Menlyn Ford's replyOfficial
25 May 2022, 10:31From: Nelius Botha [mailto:***]
Sent: Monday, 23 May 2022 14:26
Cc: Riaan van Tonder <***>
Subject: RE: Dispute and Failure to resolve the matter
Sent: Monday, 23 May 2022 14:26
Cc: Riaan van Tonder <***>
Subject: RE: Dispute and Failure to resolve the matter
Dear Mr Spies.
Thank you for your e-mail and raising your concerns with us. Please accept my sincere apology for any discomfort we might have caused you. Please allow me the opportunity to provide you with the following feedback.
I had a consultation session with my team at Menlyn Ford to cross reference facts as presented by yourself. I validated our documentation and feedback from the dealer side and unfortunately cannot comment for the feedback provided by the Ford customer care consultant at this stage. Ford SA is an entity on its own, where responsibility of its doing and people is subjected to their own company policies and internal procedures.
In summary:
- One aspect that is very important for your attention, is that the vehicle came in not just for a transmission malfunction, but also for an engine management light that is on and a 180 000km service.
- The R42499.86 was for replacing the transmission module (Addressing the Transmission fault code that was evident, that was part of the root cause for the transmission malfunction light that was coming on) and the catalytic converter(which is related to the engine malfunction light that is on as per diagnostic printouts and data). R30 472.00 was for the replacement of the catalytic converter and the balance was for the transmission malfunction light. All this was clearly communicated to you, the customer, as per e-mail dated 8 April 2022, 12:18.(Customer break down for the 2 individual repairs)
- The condition of the clutch pack for the transmission was not yet in question during this repair, as the starting point was to replace the TCM, which was the root cause for the transmission malfunction and indicator. It would be completely unfair towards the customer to quote a complete transmission overhaul as a repair solution, if we did not start with the main failing components first. As per repair procedure, the correct diagnostics trail was followed to ensure the correct repair procedure is conducted.
- Although the vehicle is out of warranty, and with high mileage, the DOM (Dealer operations manager) was involved to evaluate the case and its basis and to provide possible assistance towards the repair costs. Criteria for consideration is based on service history and loyalty towards the brand.
- The DOM is not employed by the dealer and works for FORD SA.
- Goodwill was declined by the manufacturer, based on all the criteria that was adjudicated, which an incomplete service history with Ford dealerships, played a role in this particular case.
- Multiple concerns, which relates to maintenance on your vehicle, is the result of high repair costs. Therefore, it would be an unfair measurement towards the current value of the vehicle. Hence also the fact that the repair conducted, as with any other normal repair, was to avoid overspending on the repair identified.
In conclusion:
With all the information share with you, it has never been a case that Menlyn Ford showed any incompetence in getting your vehicle repaired. We also suggest without prejudice, that the social media post is misleading in this occurrence, and we friendly suggest that the post be removed. The dealer was open and upfront with all information and even though it took some time to do our best to get the issue resolved with assistance and goodwill from FORD SA, it was declined based on one fact, but not limited to only, 5 services carried out at non approved Ford workshops.
We regret that we will not be able to return the parts that was fitted on your vehicle and provide you with a refund. These parts were authorized and, in all fairness, found to be defective.
Although this might be the case, we are still more than willing to repair the vehicle, should you consider the necessary maintenance required to resolve the current concern on your vehicle, and the costs involve carrying out the repair now going forward. My team is committed in providing the best possible revised pricing to help resolve the concern.
From a BB Motor group perspective, we would gladly support an aimable solution going forward. Should this option not be available, we recommend as last resort, that you refer this for a third-party perspective, which will be the MIO, to advise in their capacity.
Please feel free to contact us should you require any further clarity or information in this regard.
Kind Regards
“Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower”
Nelius Botha
Group Service Manager
Nelius Botha
Group Service Manager
BB Menlyn Ford's reply25 May 2022, 10:31
Official
From: Nelius Botha [mailto:***]
Sent: Monday, 23 May 2022 14:26
Cc: Riaan van Tonder <***>
Subject: RE: Dispute and Failure to resolve the matter
Sent: Monday, 23 May 2022 14:26
Cc: Riaan van Tonder <***>
Subject: RE: Dispute and Failure to resolve the matter
Dear Mr Spies.
Thank you for your e-mail and raising your concerns with us. Please accept my sincere apology for any discomfort we might have caused you. Please allow me the opportunity to provide you with the following feedback.
I had a consultation session with my team at Menlyn Ford to cross reference facts as presented by yourself. I validated our documentation and feedback from the dealer side and unfortunately cannot comment for the feedback provided by the Ford customer care consultant at this stage. Ford SA is an entity on its own, where responsibility of its doing and people is subjected to their own company policies and internal procedures.
In summary:
- One aspect that is very important for your attention, is that the vehicle came in not just for a transmission malfunction, but also for an engine management light that is on and a 180 000km service.
- The R42499.86 was for replacing the transmission module (Addressing the Transmission fault code that was evident, that was part of the root cause for the transmission malfunction light that was coming on) and the catalytic converter(which is related to the engine malfunction light that is on as per diagnostic printouts and data). R30 472.00 was for the replacement of the catalytic converter and the balance was for the transmission malfunction light. All this was clearly communicated to you, the customer, as per e-mail dated 8 April 2022, 12:18.(Customer break down for the 2 individual repairs)
- The condition of the clutch pack for the transmission was not yet in question during this repair, as the starting point was to replace the TCM, which was the root cause for the transmission malfunction and indicator. It would be completely unfair towards the customer to quote a complete transmission overhaul as a repair solution, if we did not start with the main failing components first. As per repair procedure, the correct diagnostics trail was followed to ensure the correct repair procedure is conducted.
- Although the vehicle is out of warranty, and with high mileage, the DOM (Dealer operations manager) was involved to evaluate the case and its basis and to provide possible assistance towards the repair costs. Criteria for consideration is based on service history and loyalty towards the brand.
- The DOM is not employed by the dealer and works for FORD SA.
- Goodwill was declined by the manufacturer, based on all the criteria that was adjudicated, which an incomplete service history with Ford dealerships, played a role in this particular case.
- Multiple concerns, which relates to maintenance on your vehicle, is the result of high repair costs. Therefore, it would be an unfair measurement towards the current value of the vehicle. Hence also the fact that the repair conducted, as with any other normal repair, was to avoid overspending on the repair identified.
In conclusion:
With all the information share with you, it has never been a case that Menlyn Ford showed any incompetence in getting your vehicle repaired. We also suggest without prejudice, that the social media post is misleading in this occurrence, and we friendly suggest that the post be removed. The dealer was open and upfront with all information and even though it took some time to do our best to get the issue resolved with assistance and goodwill from FORD SA, it was declined based on one fact, but not limited to only, 5 services carried out at non approved Ford workshops.
We regret that we will not be able to return the parts that was fitted on your vehicle and provide you with a refund. These parts were authorized and, in all fairness, found to be defective.
Although this might be the case, we are still more than willing to repair the vehicle, should you consider the necessary maintenance required to resolve the current concern on your vehicle, and the costs involve carrying out the repair now going forward. My team is committed in providing the best possible revised pricing to help resolve the concern.
From a BB Motor group perspective, we would gladly support an aimable solution going forward. Should this option not be available, we recommend as last resort, that you refer this for a third-party perspective, which will be the MIO, to advise in their capacity.
Please feel free to contact us should you require any further clarity or information in this regard.
Kind Regards
“Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower”
Nelius Botha
Group Service Manager
Nelius Botha
Group Service Manager
PS
Philip S's updateReviewer Update
25 May 2022, 11:21Thank you for the reply. For ease of reference I am copying the email, and will respond in bold to each point raised.
In summary:
- One aspect that is very important for your attention, is that the vehicle came in not just for a transmission malfunction, but also for an engine management light that is on and a 180 000km service. I am obviously not a mechanical expert, and I was not aware that the engine light is a separate issue.
- The R42499.86 was for replacing the transmission module (Addressing the Transmission fault code that was evident, that was part of the root cause for the transmission malfunction light that was coming on) and the catalytic converter(which is related to the engine malfunction light that is on as per diagnostic printouts and data). R30 472.00 was for the replacement of the catalytic converter and the balance was for the transmission malfunction light. All this was clearly communicated to you, the customer, as per e-mail dated 8 April 2022, 12:18.(Customer break down for the 2 individual repairs). I believe that the fault was misdiagnosed from the beginning, as in Angelique's email to me on 19 April 2022 she confirms that they had reinstalled the old TCM, and the transmission improved. How can the old unit function better than the new one if the TCM was the problem? I beg to differ on the "clear" communication. I asked that they diagnose the problem with the gears shifting erratically, how was I supposed to know that the catalytic converter had nothing to do with the transmission problem? As I said, I am not a repair expert. Considering the costs involved, would it not have been reasonable to suggest that the transmission be repaired first, and the catalytic converter could have been replaced at a later date?
- The condition of the clutch pack for the transmission was not yet in question during this repair, as the starting point was to replace the TCM, which was the root cause for the transmission malfunction and indicator. It would be completely unfair towards the customer to quote a complete transmission overhaul as a repair solution, if we did not start with the main failing components first. As per repair procedure, the correct diagnostics trail was followed to ensure the correct repair procedure is conducted. As I stated above, the old component apparently functioned better than the new one. How is this possible? It is also not unreasonable to assume that your technicians should have checked for all the damaged components before suggesting a repair, especially considering the costs involved. If they had done a thorough diagnostic, I would not have paid for the initial repairs because it does not make financial sense to spend that kind of money to repair the vehicle. Common sense suggests that all components would be checked before any repair is suggested. Surely someone with technical knowledge should have considered that there might be damage to the clutch if the TCM was indeed faulty.
Although the vehicle is out of warranty, and with high mileage, the DOM (Dealer operations manager) was involved to evaluate the case and its basis and to provide possible assistance towards the repair costs. Criteria for consideration is based on service history and loyalty towards the brand.
The DOM is not employed by the dealer and works for FORD SA.
Goodwill was declined by the manufacturer, based on all the criteria that was adjudicated, which an incomplete service history with Ford dealerships, played a role in this particular case.
- Multiple concerns, which relates to maintenance on your vehicle, is the result of high repair costs. I am afraid you will have to elaborate on this. You seem to be suggesting that if all the services had been done by Ford, the transmission would not have failed. With my limited knowledge, I believe the high cost is a result of the extremely expensive parts, only available from Ford. I have also found references on the internet to the fact that transmission failure on these vehicles are a common problem. In fact, it is so common that Ford in the USA instructed their dealerships to repair it for free. Therefore, it would be an unfair measurement towards the current value of the vehicle. Hence also the fact that the repair conducted, as with any other normal repair, was to avoid overspending on the repair identified. If BB Ford wanted to avoid overspending, why did they not advise me that the catalytic converter could wait to be replaced at a later date? As you said this would have saved me in excess of R 30 000. This could have been used to repair the clutch. Please also bear in mind that I had to wait 7 days for a response from BB Ford on 19 April 2022. I rep****, and instructed them to remove the parts and refund me. They then took another 7 days to reply, only to tell me that the parts could not be returned since more than 7 days had passed. Last week when I enquired as to the return of the catalytic converter, I was told it could not be returned because it was more than 30 days!
In conclusion:
With all the information share with you, it has never been a case that Menlyn Ford showed any incompetence in getting your vehicle repaired. We will have to agree to disagree on this. We also suggest without prejudice, that the social media post is misleading in this occurrence, and we friendly suggest that the post be removed. Which social media post are you referring to? Please elaborate on how the post is misleading. The dealer was open and upfront with all information and even though it took some time to do our best to get the issue resolved with assistance and goodwill (It was decided between you and Ford SA to apply the "goodwill" criteria. As I mentioned from the beginning, I expected a resolution to the misdiagnosis and mismanagement of the repair.) from FORD SA, it was declined based on one fact, but not limited to only, 5 services carried out at non approved Ford workshops. As I said above, we are not in agreement with the dealer being open and upfront. Please also note that I only escalated the matter to Ford SA on 28 April when it became apparent that management at BB Ford was not interested in resolving this. I left multiple messages for the DP to call me back, I spoke to Riaan briefly on the 28th, he said he would get right back to me. This never happened. After Ford SA declined the repair, I again spoke to Riaan, he again undertook to get back to me, and never did. He instructed Angelique to tell me the catalytic converter could not be returned since more than 30 days had passed. When I reminded her that I had requested this on 20 April already, she undertook to have Riaan get back to me. Again no response.
We regret that we will not be able to return the parts that was fitted on your vehicle and provide you with a refund. These parts were authorized and, in all fairness, found to be defective. In all fairness I believe I have covered this above. Based on Angelique's email I would argue that the TCM was not defective, and as I said the catalytic converter did not need to be replaced immediately for the vehicle to be drivable.
Although this might be the case, we are still more than willing to repair the vehicle, should you consider the necessary maintenance required to resolve the current concern on your vehicle, and the costs involve carrying out the repair now going forward. (I believe that I have been very clear on this from the very beginning, but rest assured that even if I decided to forget about my valid concerns with regards to the service at Ford Menlyn, I would not have the vehicle repaired at your dealership.) My team is committed in providing the best possible revised pricing to help resolve the concern. Am I to understand that the R 37 000 quoted was not the best possible price? Interesting.
From a BB Motor group perspective, we would gladly support an aimable solution going forward. Should this option not be available, we recommend as last resort, that you refer this for a third-party perspective, which will be the MIO, to advise in their capacity.
PS
Philip S's update25 May 2022, 11:21
Reviewer Update
Thank you for the reply. For ease of reference I am copying the email, and will respond in bold to each point raised.
In summary:
- One aspect that is very important for your attention, is that the vehicle came in not just for a transmission malfunction, but also for an engine management light that is on and a 180 000km service. I am obviously not a mechanical expert, and I was not aware that the engine light is a separate issue.
- The R42499.86 was for replacing the transmission module (Addressing the Transmission fault code that was evident, that was part of the root cause for the transmission malfunction light that was coming on) and the catalytic converter(which is related to the engine malfunction light that is on as per diagnostic printouts and data). R30 472.00 was for the replacement of the catalytic converter and the balance was for the transmission malfunction light. All this was clearly communicated to you, the customer, as per e-mail dated 8 April 2022, 12:18.(Customer break down for the 2 individual repairs). I believe that the fault was misdiagnosed from the beginning, as in Angelique's email to me on 19 April 2022 she confirms that they had reinstalled the old TCM, and the transmission improved. How can the old unit function better than the new one if the TCM was the problem? I beg to differ on the "clear" communication. I asked that they diagnose the problem with the gears shifting erratically, how was I supposed to know that the catalytic converter had nothing to do with the transmission problem? As I said, I am not a repair expert. Considering the costs involved, would it not have been reasonable to suggest that the transmission be repaired first, and the catalytic converter could have been replaced at a later date?
- The condition of the clutch pack for the transmission was not yet in question during this repair, as the starting point was to replace the TCM, which was the root cause for the transmission malfunction and indicator. It would be completely unfair towards the customer to quote a complete transmission overhaul as a repair solution, if we did not start with the main failing components first. As per repair procedure, the correct diagnostics trail was followed to ensure the correct repair procedure is conducted. As I stated above, the old component apparently functioned better than the new one. How is this possible? It is also not unreasonable to assume that your technicians should have checked for all the damaged components before suggesting a repair, especially considering the costs involved. If they had done a thorough diagnostic, I would not have paid for the initial repairs because it does not make financial sense to spend that kind of money to repair the vehicle. Common sense suggests that all components would be checked before any repair is suggested. Surely someone with technical knowledge should have considered that there might be damage to the clutch if the TCM was indeed faulty.
Although the vehicle is out of warranty, and with high mileage, the DOM (Dealer operations manager) was involved to evaluate the case and its basis and to provide possible assistance towards the repair costs. Criteria for consideration is based on service history and loyalty towards the brand.
The DOM is not employed by the dealer and works for FORD SA.
Goodwill was declined by the manufacturer, based on all the criteria that was adjudicated, which an incomplete service history with Ford dealerships, played a role in this particular case.
- Multiple concerns, which relates to maintenance on your vehicle, is the result of high repair costs. I am afraid you will have to elaborate on this. You seem to be suggesting that if all the services had been done by Ford, the transmission would not have failed. With my limited knowledge, I believe the high cost is a result of the extremely expensive parts, only available from Ford. I have also found references on the internet to the fact that transmission failure on these vehicles are a common problem. In fact, it is so common that Ford in the USA instructed their dealerships to repair it for free. Therefore, it would be an unfair measurement towards the current value of the vehicle. Hence also the fact that the repair conducted, as with any other normal repair, was to avoid overspending on the repair identified. If BB Ford wanted to avoid overspending, why did they not advise me that the catalytic converter could wait to be replaced at a later date? As you said this would have saved me in excess of R 30 000. This could have been used to repair the clutch. Please also bear in mind that I had to wait 7 days for a response from BB Ford on 19 April 2022. I rep****, and instructed them to remove the parts and refund me. They then took another 7 days to reply, only to tell me that the parts could not be returned since more than 7 days had passed. Last week when I enquired as to the return of the catalytic converter, I was told it could not be returned because it was more than 30 days!
In conclusion:
With all the information share with you, it has never been a case that Menlyn Ford showed any incompetence in getting your vehicle repaired. We will have to agree to disagree on this. We also suggest without prejudice, that the social media post is misleading in this occurrence, and we friendly suggest that the post be removed. Which social media post are you referring to? Please elaborate on how the post is misleading. The dealer was open and upfront with all information and even though it took some time to do our best to get the issue resolved with assistance and goodwill (It was decided between you and Ford SA to apply the "goodwill" criteria. As I mentioned from the beginning, I expected a resolution to the misdiagnosis and mismanagement of the repair.) from FORD SA, it was declined based on one fact, but not limited to only, 5 services carried out at non approved Ford workshops. As I said above, we are not in agreement with the dealer being open and upfront. Please also note that I only escalated the matter to Ford SA on 28 April when it became apparent that management at BB Ford was not interested in resolving this. I left multiple messages for the DP to call me back, I spoke to Riaan briefly on the 28th, he said he would get right back to me. This never happened. After Ford SA declined the repair, I again spoke to Riaan, he again undertook to get back to me, and never did. He instructed Angelique to tell me the catalytic converter could not be returned since more than 30 days had passed. When I reminded her that I had requested this on 20 April already, she undertook to have Riaan get back to me. Again no response.
We regret that we will not be able to return the parts that was fitted on your vehicle and provide you with a refund. These parts were authorized and, in all fairness, found to be defective. In all fairness I believe I have covered this above. Based on Angelique's email I would argue that the TCM was not defective, and as I said the catalytic converter did not need to be replaced immediately for the vehicle to be drivable.
Although this might be the case, we are still more than willing to repair the vehicle, should you consider the necessary maintenance required to resolve the current concern on your vehicle, and the costs involve carrying out the repair now going forward. (I believe that I have been very clear on this from the very beginning, but rest assured that even if I decided to forget about my valid concerns with regards to the service at Ford Menlyn, I would not have the vehicle repaired at your dealership.) My team is committed in providing the best possible revised pricing to help resolve the concern. Am I to understand that the R 37 000 quoted was not the best possible price? Interesting.
From a BB Motor group perspective, we would gladly support an aimable solution going forward. Should this option not be available, we recommend as last resort, that you refer this for a third-party perspective, which will be the MIO, to advise in their capacity.