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Rory T

1 reviews | Active since Jul 2016

31 Aug 2016, 14:23

Not so High Definition

<p>Just over a year ago I decided to install a high end audio visual system/home entertainment system in my newly acquired house as I plan to live there for a long time. I have a bar area, a mian lounge/tv room and also wanted tv's in two other rooms as well. Due to the now low cost of high definition screens I looked into the possiblity of having high definition signal in all of these areas as I had two high definition DSTV decoders with extra view and I thought that this would use them to their full capacity. I was also aware that high end aplifiers allow you to play music from a different source in at least one other location and this would be ideal for my patio.</p> <p>I was referred to Elegant Systems by my friend who had just built a house in an upmarket estate and they were used by a few other people apparently. I began the process with one of their sales agents, Gavin Payne (whos name sadly became ironic). I explained what I wanted and he excitedly went about explaining how they good they were at this and what the nature of what they do was, which made the technicalities of my istallation seem quite minor. They are in the business of full home automation and do installations to the value of hundreds of thousands of rands. I explaned to him that I didnt want to go over the top but wanted a good system that was somewhat future proof. With regard to the HDMI set-up, he went to great lengths to assure me that it was an easy install and that they could pull cabling and power to anywhere in the house. He assured me that they used the best components and that they were pretty much second to none in the business.<br />I am a person who doesn't take anything at face value so I did due dilligence and got another quote for a similar system(as I think any person should do when they dont know the ins and outs of of what they are potentially spending a significant sum of money on) which was significantly cheaper than the quote from Gavin (by R20 000). I forwarded the quote to Gavin and had a meeting with him during which he assured me that the equipment Elegant would install was of better quality than what was in the rival quote but he could give me the lesser quality stuff at a similar price. He specifically mentioned that the rival was using Ellies equipment to split the HDMI which was cheaper and of lesser quality than their Space equipment. I ruminated over the quote and looked up reviews and compared specs of the equipment,and taking what Gavin had said into account, I decided to go with the more expensive quote considering it was to be a long term investment. They also gave me a discount on the original quote. It just seemed to be better value for money and they were more of a "one stop shop".</p> <p>This is when all the problems started.</p> <p>Firstly they were tardy with the installation and busy at other sites despite the date of my installation being set. I had to keep following up as to when they were going to finish or what was causing the delay. The installation in one of my bedrooms was ridiculously sloppy with wires and extension cords wrapped loosely over the curtain rails. I had warned them that a multi-plug glued to the wall was likely to fall off at a later stage but my statement was dismissed....it subsequently fell off after two months.<br />More significantly I began having trouble with the HDMI signal which kept failing for no apparent reason. To my surprise when I was investigating one of the failures, I noticed that the equipment was Ellies which obviously drew my ire considering what I was told. I asked Gavin what was going on and elevated the complaint to Keegan Brummer and a guy named Llyod,both of whom I was told were higher up in the company(apparently the owners). They came back to me implying that because I had asked for a "budget" system, they had installed the Ellies components to save me money. This was obviousy nonsense because getting an alternative quote and asking for a discount is nothing abnormal in my opinion nor is the fact that whilst I wanted a good system I didnt want to go ove rthe top considering the size of my tv room or the extent of what I wanted with respect to the other rooms. They would try to get the best deal for themselves and likewise any consumer should try to get the best deal for themselves. I had even initailly asked for a quote for a DJ booth so it was obvious I had enough money, although I later decided that was going too far as I had another resonable Hi-Fi that would serve the purpose.</p> <p>They then changed all the HDMI equipment to that originally proposed and behaved as though they had done me the biggest favor which I found bizarre. <br />This however did not solve the problem as the HDMI system kept failing. They replaced AC adaptors and other components and eventually told me they had put in the "Rolls Royce" of HDMI splitting equipment. In various conversations with Keegan he also commented that Gavin had over-promised on what they could deliver as a company and it seemed that in some way he had under-quoted for the job, but I found this strange as the equipment prices didnt seem far off when compared to the other quote, and considering how extensive their other installations are, doing things like putting wires and cords in conduits should be easy for them.</p> <p>My building contractor also picked up that the wiring they had installed for my patio speakers which had to run on the roof was left exposed to the sun and rain which would have caused premature failure so I had to tell them to do what one would think was obvious, put them in a conduit. I also complained about some charges on the final invoice that were not disclosed initially related to brackets to which they rep**** that they had given me a discount, replaced an alarm sensor at no cost and installed remote blasters at no cost.<br />Again this was completely bizarre because as already discussed, asking for a discount is nothing special and I have no idea of the margins they may be making on the job. The sensor they replaced was one that they broke after Wayne had assured me that it was no issue at all to move the sensors around and that they do it all the time, and the remote blasters were always supposed to be part of the quote which was discussed with Wayne as obvioulsy I would need to be able to change channels in the various areas...so it had nothing to do with me that they hadn't included it. Their quotes are not specific for certain things with a few bundled items that could include or exclude anything.</p> <p>They were repeatedly at my place compromising my security not to mention inconveniencing me greatly and were not giving me hard answers as to why the HDMI system kept failing. At the second to last failure Keegan came out to check the sytem and spent the whole day at my place and gave me the diagnosis that it was actually my HDPVR that needed replacing. I came home and after trouble shooting a little while, I figured out that there was absolutley NOTHING wrong with the decoder. I turned everything off and on again about 15 minutes later and everything was working again.<br />I let Keegan know that I was annoyed at his apparent lack of objective knowledge which almost cost me the price of a new PVR. This fix happened to coincide with the Multi-plug detaching from the wall as I had previously predicted, so to add insult to injury I received an invoice from Elegant for a call-out fee. I called Keegan and asked how they can charge me for issues that had never been resolved in the first place. He conceded and cancelled the charge.</p> <p>The system was then stable for a while but after a few months...HDMI failure again. I took all the HDMI equipment to them and asked them to solve the problem once and for all. By this time however, the equipment was out of the one year guarantee period. They sent it away for testing and only one of the components had failed but stated that it had been caused by a "power surge". They said that previous failures were also due to power surges which were not covered by the guarantee but they had replaced them as a courtesy to me.</p> <p>I asked why they hadnt put a solution in place to avoid the surges as I had mentioned surge protection. This would be obvious given Eskoms history and the fact that they do these installations all the time especially considering that they seemingly identified this as a problem already, and I was complaining about the number of times the system was failing and they were needed to come out. I also said I didnt quite buy the story as none of my other electrical equipment in the ENTIRE house was affected by the alleged surge.<br />Keegan then got a technician by the name of Bertus Pretorius from ELAN systems who import the "Rolls Royce" PHd and Space equipment they had installed, to call me to explain the fault report. He asserted that it must have been a power surge that caused the failure to which I rasied the question of why it only affected the HDMI equipemt and nothing else. He then said that it may have been a electro-static discharge that caused the failure and added that even disconnecting the HDMI receivers from the decoder without turning the decoder off may cause it to fail. He added that power surge protection plugs may not protect the devices. He said that I could install a Furman device which should solve the problem(at a cost of R5000) but it may still not protect the system fully</p> <p>I was astonished as it seemed any failure of the devices could be blamed on just about anything and these were not covered by the guarantee. It seemed that even if you looked at the equipment in the worng way it could fail and you would be expected to cough up money for repairs or replacements.</p> <p>I emailed Keegan and told him that the situation was ludicrous and if I was aware that the system was so fragile I would never have installed it. They never gave me any clue even after they were coming to my place almost on a weekly basis.</p> <p>To Elegant Systems credit, Keegan refunded me the amount for the HDMI equipment however I sat with three HDMI televisions I now could not use to their capacity as well as wiring for that purpose that was paid for but now unused. When I had previously mentioned Waynes comments about Ellies equipment being inferior to Keegan he then contradicted Wayne(who had by then left the company) saying it was decent but that theirs was a bit better.</p> <p>I decided to get the equipment form Ellies (considering all the infrastructure in place) and would see how it goes. It was half the price of the original equipment. Additionally, upon questioning the technician at Ellies it turns out that the CAT5 cabling which is used to carry HDMI signals over distances loger than 15M needs to be "shielded" as if it's not, it gets interference from outside sources including simple radio waves prevelant everywhere. It has been a standard in the audio visual industry for more than one and a half years according to the technician and he even advised me not to bother buying the HDMI splitting equipment if I didnt have the shielded cable as it would fail and would not be covered by the guarantee.</p> <p>With that information I put the question to Keegan as to whether my cables were shielded as this seemed a more plausable explaination for the failures. He took about three days to answer the simple question and what would you know...the cabling is not shielded. I asked why and he claims it is not necessary which obviously I found hard to believe. At this point he became passive aggresive and told me that since he had refunded my money he had fulfilled his obligation to me and I should get Ellies to install anything further for me. I brought it to his attention that I had already paid HIS company to install the cables which in my opinion was not done correctly form the start and seemingly was the most likely cause for the problem, let alone the fact that I now have an extensive system that I shouldn't be using. He denied this vehemently and rudely and maintained that it was a power surge that caused the problem. I dropped Bertus from ELAN an email and a call just to ask if he thinks his equipment should be used with shielded cable but he has refused to respond. It seems they have closed ranks.</p> <p>At this point I should stress again that no other equipment was damaged and I have never had anything in any of my homes damaged by a power surge and would gladly open up my insurance records to any concerned parties. I have many many emails documenting this saga.</p> <p>I do not want anything further from Elegant and have resigned myself to the fact that at some point I will have to replace all their cables with shielded ones if the Ellies equipment does fail. I write this out of concern for the general public and to hold businesses like Elegant to account. <br />Just because a company has the appearance of being professional does not mean that they are.</p> <p>Dr R P Tayler</p>

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Replies (2)
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Rory T's update31 Aug 2016, 15:16
Reviewer Update

I have been contacted by Keegan and after heairng his repsonse, I have decided to gather further inforamation regarding the technicalities of teh HDMI system. Please treat the above review as provisional until further notice.

RT
Rory T's update01 Sept 2016, 11:08
Reviewer Update

After discussions with Keegan I subsequently contacted two independent home automation companies and they (Bruce-Homeation Cape Town; Chris-EGAS Johannesburg) informed me that in their view the CAT5 cables would not cause the HDMI units to malfunction and that CAT6(shielded) only prevented interference from other devices. They did add that for this reason they installed CAT6 anyway but that CAT5 was acceptable. They did however inform me that HDMI splitting is still quite prone to failure and advise installation of a UPS to stabilise the current and that this would most likely solve the problem completely with a minimal residual risk of voltage spikes being transmitted.

Apparently Johannesburg already runs on very high volage relative to the rest of the country making sensitive devices more prone to failure which is not covered under guarantee.

I therefore must apologise to Elegant Systems for any unnecessary damage caused to their reputation but I do still feel that they should have known about how sensitive the system is and should have advised on installing a UPS long ago. There was also no excuse for shoddy installation with reagrd to exposed wiring etc and it does seem that CAT6 is the industury standard.

They do deserve credit for refunding my money for the HDMI hardware but should be aware that the cost of the cabling related to that is not neglible and becomes useless without the hardware.

Regards